What should I have said next?

[flexagon]

This morning I helped with, or at least shoved my nose into, a fairly ugly altercation that was happening at my local bagel place. I didn't hear the beginning of it, but basically this man was yelling at the women behind the counter (one of whom I've been buying bagels from for years, and who I like), calling them cunts and assholes and threatening to get them fired. He was not satisfied with the information they gave him about how to give feedback to the bagel chain, was not satisfied with the manager ("where's the REAL manager?") and was really being loud and acting vicious. I walked over and addressed the employees, asking if everything was okay or if they needed me to call the police. The man said "oh you want to get into this too, huh? What's YOUR name? [I told him] You must be one of these man-haters, right?" "You are threatening these women. It's not okay. I'll be happy to call 911", says I. "I'm not threatening them! Yeah you hate men. Probably a lesbian. Bitch." he says, prompting a male customer behind me to speak up with "Well I'm not a man-hater, and you're creating a nuisance" or something of that sort. I think he felt outnumbered, because he eventually left, making threats about getting people fired all the way out.

Here's what's still bothering me -- in my efforts to stay calm-but-forceful, I messed up; I shouldn't have said he was threatening anyone. I've racked my brains and I don't actually think his insults were threats; he did say he was going to get them fired by giving feedback to the "real" manager, but giving feedback is within his rights as a customer. I'm sure I did the right thing by walking over to the argument, especially since the employees thanked me afterward, but I didn't say the right thing to the guy, and what I did say could have been considered slander or something in court.

I wish I had said this: "I heard a disturbance and came over to make sure everyone was all right", which I more or less did say. But when the guy addressed me, what? I could have said "You have the information you need to give feedback to the company; is that all you need?" but then he would have done the lesbian/manhater rant, and it would have had to be followed by something else. What would you have said?

Comments

[body-alchemy.livejournal.com]

I think you handled it fine. As you said, he did threaten them.

I might have been too scared to do anything. Frankly, I'm proud of you.

[flexagon]

But not with assault or anything illegal. He was doing something wrong, but what -- disturbing the peace?

Thank you for your glowing opinion. *blush* I did go to the bagel chain's website and enter positive feedback about the manager (for staying calm and professional in the face of definite abuse), so if Mr. Lunatic really does carry through and give any feedback, there'll be a counter-opinion. And if he doesn't, then there is only what I said, namely, give the woman a raise. ;)

bagel guy

[islenskr.livejournal.com]

I would have said exactly what you said. Or, I would have said nothing and called the police. I've been on the other end of that sort of thing before - I was an employee of a local deli and was harrassed several times. Didn't know what to do then, but I know now.

Re: bagel guy

[flexagon]

Oh, saying nothing and calling the police is a brilliant option. This guy was nowhere close to leaving, so they'd have had time to get there, too.

Then, in the ideal world, I'd be able to hold up a sign for the employees to see, that says "Hang in there, the police are on their way."

[bluechromis.livejournal.com]

Oh, yuck. :(

He WAS threatening them. If someone is being contextually inappropriate (yelling in a place of business, for example) they don't have to say "I'm going to kill you" in order to be considered threatening. It's a somewhat subjective thing which I know from the Brian business a few years back.

I think you were a) brave to speak up to him and b) responsible in following through with your version of the story.

*Hugs*

[flexagon]

Really? Oh, that's so excellent, I just felt a little weight lifting off my left aorta. Not that I actually thought Mr. Loon McCrazy was sane enough to get anyone fired or drag me to court, but I was really regretting having possibly made an untrue accusation. If contextual inappropriateness is enough, then I'm pretty safe on legal grounds. It still might have been better to lead off with "You are causing a disturbance", but what the hell.

Hurray, and thank you for the information and the hug!

[apfelsingail.livejournal.com]

I would agree with Blue. That was definitely threatening, abusive behavior, and was completely out of all lines. Kudos to you for saying something.

[miyyu.livejournal.com]

I third this. He doesn't have to say "I'm going to hurt you" to be threatening. His behavior was threatening. Clearly, he was trying to make them acquiesce to him by yelling, cursing, bullying them, etc. That's threatening behavior.

You did the right thing and were very brave.

[silver-spork.livejournal.com]

I have to agree that he was threatening them. He was indirectly threatening their livelihood and using language and noise to bully. His language alone may have been enough to call the cops, even without the yelling.

You did a good job. I probably would have either a) stood back and called the cops without saying anything or b) started yelling at the guy to watch his language and stop harassing the workers. I used option b) once at a post office when a customer was yelling at a non-native English-speaking clerk because he couldn't understand the clerk. The customer was so shocked that someone called him on it that he shut up and left.

[original-rocker.livejournal.com]

I haven't been on LJ in a while, so I'm just coming across this now...I apologize for the belated response.

I think you acted admirably. I know I'd have been tempted to use a police-carry and 'escort' him off the premises. Or just poke him in the eyes and kick him out the door. Some people just don't have that little sensor inside that tells them when they've crossed the line into being completely inappropriate and rude or borderline hostile (others have this sensor and just ignore it). In any case, you helped ameliorate the situation without escalating to violence. Kudos.