Bubble, bubble

[flexagon]

So you think I haven't been LJing much? I'll have you know I started trouble over on miyyu's post about plastic surgery before I even left the house this morning. That's how dedicated I am. :)

Mostly I've been doing a bunch of personal-productivity things like sorting all the papers I brought home, doing lots of reading for future work, working out (squats felt fine again; something really is better about them) and so forth. Along with scary books like Effective STL and some more C++ Primer, I've been reading an even more scary book called Winning Office Politics. It's a disturbing and hilarious read, and ranges from the most innocent of tactics (smile at people) to such things as: For the sake of completion, we are compelled to mention the ageless tactic of marrying an offspring of a powerful person in order to catapult into a key spot in the organization. Yipes--and then there are the not-at-all-sarcastic references to Machiavelli. I think at this point I'm reading it for humor value and for self-defense rather than as part of any offensive plans. After all, for a few months I will have no agenda beyond fitting in and figuring shit out.

Oh--I did manage to have a friendly and non-bridge-burning talk with the CEO, who is back in town, this morning. I started out friendly and smiling, and as usual it magically stayed that way (I love you, Dale!). I scored some points by saying that if I were staying in the industry I would surely choose to stay at DSB (which of course is a huge if... so who knows, maybe it was true), and he scored some points by inviting me to the company BBQ in August. Then I left while we both still had points on the scoreboard. Whew.

Comments

[webrat.livejournal.com]

Whoa, flexy had surgery. Didn't know that. :) I'd like to see a before / after, but I doubt you have one.

Good job keeping the scoreboard lit up.

[flexagon]

Nah, visually it was a pretty small change unless you have pictures of me glaring before and after. People picked up on the change in emotional projection quite well though.

[hiddenbear.livejournal.com]

Oh boy, Effective STL ... very impressive. I've always known that I should read that, but never have. In fact, its been a long long time since I've read any programming books. Bad hiddenbear, bad! Do you find that you can retain a lot of it without doing projects to reinforce? I'm so impressed by people who can.

Too bad that your bait hasn't been taken over on miyyu's post. It would be really interesting to see that take off. I guess officially your surgery is classified as 'plastic', but the way you explain it, it makes it seem like it has a more acceptable reason than most.

I agree with your points (to varying extents). I'd throw in shaving/waxing as a major body modification for popular reasons.

I've got a blown blood vessel below my eye that I've thought of getting fixed at times, but have never looked into how much it would cost.

[flexagon]

Before this latest reading orgy it had been a long time for me too. I find I have middling retention (higher when I am motivated). If I'm lucky, what I remember is that at least the issues were discussed, and then when I encounter them in code I may think "Meyers wrote something about this" and pick up the book. Then that time I'll retain more, because I have context. Is it the same for you?

(I have a harder time with this the higher the abstraction goes, of course. I look at code and don't always think all the right words to trigger the memories of reading.)

It is muchly too bad that my bait hasn't been taken. I think my first point (plastic surgery as a valid and proactive self-transformative act, better than whining about society) is the most interesting and the most likely to piss people off. But... silence. Perhaps I just confused them too much.

Good as I may be with the rationalization, my surgery was to change how I looked, and no excuse needed. I'm mine and can do what I want with me. :) And so, of course, can you. The blood vessel I think is the sort of thing they fix with a little laser zap,these days...

Yup

[hiddenbear.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I do a good job of remembering that I have read something about the subject when it later comes up. I don't keep many programming books at work though, so it is often for naught.

You did put a few major points all in the same comment. Maybe no one is right to bite off that much at once, but doesn't want to just respond to one and make you think that they are avoiding the others.

Re: Yup

[artana.livejournal.com]

I didn't reply, but it was in no way because of confusion. It was because I agree and disagree.:/ And I am poor with words at time and didn't want to offend.;)

On the one hand, I agree. Your body, you can do with as you like. And there are times when very small surgeries are good. Things that you cannot change easily, no matter what you do.

On the other hand, I see two nasty trends in this:

1) People are less healthy, they have the surgery to fix the outward signs that they are less healthy, but their body is still in bad shape. No outward signs, no need to worry. Easy to be lazy and let everything get worse.

2) Insecurities, as I said, passed down from mother to daughter or son. It is horrendous to have a mom imposing that kind of lack of self-image on their kids. Changing the way your body looks might give some small confidence, but the truth is that the insecurity is usually under the surface. Once again, you cover up and bandaid what's wrong and you never deal with what is truly the matter...

Good points

[flexagon]

Your first point is totally valid for liposuction, at least. The vast majority of cosmetic surgeries are different because they have to do with looking younger, and combat the effects of gravity more than ill health. I'll give you the point completely for liposuction though. Grr. I'd like to see that never done on anyone who hasn't been exercising 5-6 times per week for 3 months, just so the doctors can see what they're really working with.

Parents have always passed insecurities to their kids. While bad, it's traditional. :/ I don't think the advent of surgery really makes that dynamic worse or better (though that 18-yr-old girl probably is an idiot for going along and doing what her mother did).

One thing I didn't say is that elective surgery, like any powerful tool to effect changes, should always be used responsibly and after lots of thinking.

Re: Yup

[hiddenbear.livejournal.com]

I agree that viewing plastic surgery as a cure for psychological issues can be very bad, but flexagon is right that parents have always passed insecurities to their kids. Also, the world judges you based on physical attributes. Saying that one should love themselves enough to not care what the world things, and that one should fine friends who don't care about the physical is fine and good, but it only works in 0.1% of people. For most of us, what the world things is important, on a conscious and subconscious level. And there are good people who are still flawed to the extend that they can't completely look past the physical.

Changing the way your body looks might give some small confidence...
Isn't that enough? If you have low self esteem, and there is something wrong with your body (according to societal norms), then fixing it may result in just a little more confidence. Sure, there may be insecurities under the surface, but you have to start somewhere.

Re: Yup

[bluechromis.livejournal.com]

Isn't that enough? If you have low self esteem, and there is something wrong with your body (according to societal norms), then fixing it may result in just a little more confidence.

Well - the only objection that springs to mind on that is that some of these surgeries are very risky, lipo for example. So, if someone "doesn't need" lipo, in the sense that they are a size 6 or whatever and "look great, what's their problem" etc, if that person chooses lipo to "fix" their problem and dies, that's pretty sad.

On the other hand, I completely agree that confidence can start with the body and spread to other aspects of your personality in very good ways. People who are depressed often first show signs by not taking very good care of their bodies, and if they're forced to go through the motions of self-care, they feel better about things. Or the person who loses weight and with the extra confidence ends up deciding to dump their crappy S.O. and go back to school to get a better job.

It's important to balance the payoff against the risk I guess. I want a boob job, but at the moment the risk doesn't outweigh the desire for added confidence...nor the pain!

Re: Yup

[hiddenbear.livejournal.com]

Interesting ... I never thought of lipo as being dangerous. I guess I was being over-simplistic in assuming that if it was characterized as cosmetic surgery that it wasn't dangerous.

Re: Yup

[flexagon]

Oh, people can die from lipo. It's one of the very worst.

http://www.rense.com/politics6/liposuction_p.htm

You can get lots of other more recent links if you google "liposuction deaths".

Re: Yup

[hiddenbear.livejournal.com]

Well, I know you said I should google other articles, but the one you sent is highly suspect, and I haven't look for more.
Even they admit it: 'The surgeons and the journal admit their survey was not scientific but they say the results are still disturbing.'

'The researchers say more people are killed in the U.S. during lipoplasty than in car accidents.'
What they meant of course was per accident, but they didn't say it. And they don't reference where their 16.1 deaths per 100,000 accidents comes from, or what type of accidents it includes.

And then there is the problem that most of the deaths were from blood clots. Many of the people who have liposuction are very overweight, and are therefore predisposed to blood clots. Sure, the surgery dislodged the clot which found it's way to their heart, but that doesn't mean that the clot wouldn't have dislodged on its own three days later if they hadn't had the surgery.

Re: Yup

[artana.livejournal.com]

Actually, one of the absolute most fatal things about cosmetic surgeries is that it is easy for doctors with no actual training in the field to pretend that they are plastic surgeons. I watched a discovery channel broadcast. Of course, the biggest offender of this is Miami, but it is rampant through out the US. The surgeons rent their equipment or borrow it and then open a clinic.

If you start reading through the net for case studies, I'm afraid you'd find plenty. So, you go in for a risky procedure, with a risky doctor, in order to modify something that might not be your true problem. I honestly don't think a bit of self-esteem is worth it. And I have been a depressive in the past, so I know what you do to your body.

[miyyu.livejournal.com]

LOL "trouble", eh? I read what you wrote, and since I respect you and your opinion and you clearly thought about it, I am sitting on it a bit before I respond. I know that I've got something to say, it's just knocking around my brain somewhere.

[flexagon]

Well, okay, only sorta trouble. :) I was pretty sure you wouldn't take offense, being a thinker type, or I'd've never posted a counter to a rant in the first place. Thought I might get flamed by your friends though.

[miyyu.livejournal.com]

Nah. Nobody I know would flame. And if they did, I would kick their ass. I would rather have intelligent debate with someone than just have passive agreement.